91探花

The first attorney presenting in front of the three-judge panel from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, holding court at the 91探花 School of Law on November 18, didn’t get too deep into his argument—63 seconds to be precise—before a judge interrupted with a question.

The penetrating questions lobbed by the judges, knocking the attorney off track mid-sentence, struck Tiarra Dearbone Bryant, a first-year law student who was observing from the lecture room turned courtroom at Sullivan Hall.

“They aren’t really buying it,” she thought at first, interpreting the questions from the bench as a sign the judges were dubious of the case being presented. As the hearings went on, and the panel of judges heard from attorneys on the four cases on the docket, Dearbone Bryant picked up on a pattern. “They did the same interruptions, same tone, to the opposing council.”

With her sights set on a career in criminal post-conviction cases and clemency, Dearbone Bryant, who in a few short years could be running the same gauntlet in front of appellate judges, realized something: “It’s not personal. They interrupt every single person.”

The four cases heard by Senior Circuit Judge Mary Margaret McKeown and Senior Circuit Judge Richard Paez, President Bill Clinton appointees, and Circuit Judge Roopali Hardin Desai, appointed by President Joe Biden, dealt with cases with local relevance.

They included the sentencing of an accused meth dealer from Eastern Washington for possession of a firearm, a lawsuit about a heavy machinery crash in Gifford Pinchot National Forest, a fatal shooting by police in Longview and a restaurant mere blocks from campus impacted by the 2020 George Floyd protests at the Capitol Hill Organized Protest (CHOP).

The experience of showing law students the work of appellate judges and attorneys is key to the mission of shaping the next generation of lawyers, judges and public servants, said 91探花 Law Dean Anthony E. Varona.

“It is a rare and valuable opportunity for our students to see the legal process in action, to observe advocacy at its highest level, to judicial questioning and reasoning and the exercise of deliberation at the appellate level,” Dean Varona said. “At 91探花 School of Law, we view today's event as part of our mission to integrate legal education with real world practice.”

And that real world practice of judicial questioning was very real.

In the packed overflow room, where students watched the proceedings via livestream, reactions to the arguments drew applause and laughter, signaling to Assistant Professor of Law Chryssa Deliganis that they were following the high-level discussion.

“For the most part, law students read appellate case law,” said Professor Deliganis, who teaches first-year civil procedure, where students pore over the same type of legal precedent referenced by the judges and attorneys in oral argument. “To be able to see the judges who author those opinions in action and then be able to ask questions afterward about the process is invaluable.”

Students also met with the clerks working for the judges to ask questions. A former clerk for a Ninth Circuit judge herself, Professor Deliganis said clerks play a vital role in the work of judges and the job of clerk itself serves as excellent legal training.

“You have a catbird seat to some of the most interesting and consequential issues,” she said.

Federal courts are broken into three levels, with trial courts forming the base of the system with their jurisdictions broken into districts. In Washington state, there are two districts, one each for Eastern and Western Washington. To correct errors at the trial level, the next level above district courts are the appellate courts, which have 13 circuits covering the U.S.

The Ninth Circuit, headquartered in San Francisco, is the federal appellate court with the largest geographic jurisdiction, with 29 judges overseeing nine western states and two territories. Above the circuit courts is the U.S. Supreme Court.

First-year law students Savate Wiggs and Oliver Holod arrived early to make sure they scored seats to watch the court up close.

“You can only learn so much in the classroom doing the theoretical things and stuff like that,” Wiggs said. “But here is where you can take away some of the things that you really can’t get in the classroom.”

Holod seconded the value of being able to see an appellate court up close and where he attends class.

“Thankfully Seattle U has a court, in the building, that helps a lot,” Holod said. “That's a privilege that we have that not many law schools have.”

After the hearing concluded, the judges took questions from students and the first question was about the back and forth between judges and attorneys.

Oral argument is meant to resemble a discussion, Judge McKeown told the students, describing it as a “dynamic process” to create a high-level back and forth on the finest points of law. The goal of the judges is not simply to disrupt, but to make the best use of limited time.

However, it can appear rude to those unfamiliar with the process, Judge McKeown said, noting that is one reason U.S. Supreme Court justices have resisted having their oral arguments broadcast via video.

“They might think we are being impolite,” Judge McKeown said of the high court’s reasoning, noting that Ninth Circuit hearings have been video broadcast for years.

Prior to becoming an appellate judge, Judge Desai argued cases in front of Ninth Circuit judges and conceded it could be frustrating to be interrupted mid-thought. But the questions actually served an important purpose as real-time feedback for the attorneys, something she appreciated.

“It was nice to get some indication from judges about what they are thinking,” she said.

For students interested in one day becoming a judicial officer, the three judges offered nearly the same advice: be a good lawyer, be an ethical lawyer and follow your interests and passion.

“I always tell law students that if you think you might want to be a judge don’t make decisions based on that idea,” Judge Desai said. “The best thing to do is become a really excellent lawyer and work on things you are interested in.”

So much of advancing to the bench depends on serendipity and timing, said Judge McKeown, so if becoming a judge doesn’t work out a person will still be certain to have had a fulfilling career.

“Because of longevity, God knows how long you will practice law,” Judge McKeown said.

“Sounds like a curse,” Judge Desai deadpanned.